shapechange vs true polymorph

Is there any reason in dnd 5e to pick shapechange over true polymorph At level 20, the best you can hope for is an Ancient White or Brass Dragon as the rest have a challenge rating of 21+ and that gets into "epic levels" (assuming any DMs use that kind of 21+ progression). Allies may need to use Animal Handling to direct the target (they are a best now, after all). Those are the two big differences I see on a quick glance, there may be more if you dig into it. A level 50 druid with 10 skill in shapechange obtains 2/3 of the duration as a level 50 wizard with 10 skill in polymorph. Another nod to Disintegrate's power, and thus why it should take precedence, is that it takes a Wish or True Resurrection to come back from that. The wording is different than the wording for the spell in the. The intent is that a druid using Wild Shape is disintegrated if The GM has the creatures statistics and resolves all of its actions and movement. If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the spell lasts until it is dispelled. Pop out from under someone and turn into a Pit Fiend and beat the absolute tar out of them. Expect updates periodically as additional sourcebooks are published. So then. a lvl 20 can potentially shapechange into an Ancient Brass Dragon. given that they've seen one before? Yes, Disintegrate turns you to dust. Thats just basically a movie screen that a Scrying is playing on. This passage at the very end of it's description is what sets it apart. Its certainly more exciting but also more dangerous. Last Updated: April 8, 2022 Introduction The Polymorph spell is an extremely versatile and powerful tool. Does it use its culture? Monstrous Compendium Vol 3: Minecraft Creatures. Just because a form you take is capable of casting spells does not mean you can inherently cast any spells that arent part of that stat block. Lets take a look at each paragraph in turn here. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. Its statistics, other than its size, are the same in each form. If it reverts as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to its normal form. Should be about cr 27 if I remember correctly or atleast ancient gold dragon cr. Was going to say that I don't think you can take class levels after you TP, but I forgot entirely about the Clone spell. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit points you had before you transformed. check out the. You assume the form of a different creature for the duration. as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, You're a level 17+ Wizard and you cast True Polymorph on yourself to turn yourself into a CR 17 Adult Gold Dragon. Justice is not neccesarily honourable, it is a tolerable business, in essence you tolerate honour until it impedes justice, then you do what is right. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. What if you cast Polymorph at 6th (I don't know rules for ties in spell level) or higher? Wizards of the Coast LLC. When do you use in the accusative case? Would it be possible to only half transform into a monster? RPGBOTis unofficial Fan Content permitted under the Fan Content Policy. Why the obscure but specific description of Jane Doe II in the original complaint for Westenbroek v. Kappa Kappa Gamma Fraternity? A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. If we are going to follow SRD for almost everything as a standard, then we should adapt it for shape change. However, it does offer useful forms that your allies can ride. We and our partners use data for Personalised ads and content, ad and content measurement, audience insights and product development. You transform the creature into a different creature, the creature into a non-magical object, or the object into a creature (the object must be neither worn nor carried by another creature). The transformation lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. Which reverse polarity protection is better and why? You do not get the chance at a death saving throw, nor to stabilize in the disintegrate case. In contrast, the intent (RAI) is that a druid isnt considered to be Why refined oil is cheaper than cold press oil? You could also True Polymorph someone else, and they would be free to polymorph into something else. With the target creature's stats in it. The target is Disintegrated/Dust, because this specific case of "reducing to 0 hit points" due to this spell is unique to this spell effect, versus the general case of what happens when a creature is reduced to 0 hit points. If you transform into a Marilith, you can still speak and have hands to make Somatic gestures for those types of spells. Just gotta make sure you can pass the Dispel check against yourself (maybe a friend can help you with a Guidance/Enhance Ability/Bardic Inspiration) or youll turn into a nothlit. Theres no right answer here. In theory you should last at least 3 or 4 rounds as the creature in question (if it has Legendary Resistance) and in that time, you should be able to mess some stuff up. Others won't. Random's articles include the the Armor Artificer Handbook, the Hexblade Warlock Handbook, and the Practical Guide to Magical Secrets. Don't know why I didn't process the 'truesight' reference in the spell description and assumed it was complete/redundant. As a kill spell, this is incredible functionality, although we run into suddenly needing to know things like how many hitpoints a 5ft cube of rock has because, once again, reducing the block to 0 hitpoints will end the spell. Does a Clone spell work on a (True) Polymorphed creature? RPGBOT uses the color coding scheme which has become common among Pathfinder build handbooks, which is simple to understand and easy to read at a glance. Jeremy Crawford confirmed that you are still yourself. result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to Once they expend a number of spell slots from its new form, it proceeds to use its new 9th-level spell slot to cast True Polymorph on itself again, turning into a brand new Adult Gold Dragon form, and then using Change Shape to turn into a brand new Archmage form, and then repeats this process to gain an infinite number of spell slots. What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? When you transform, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground, merges into the new form, or is worn by it. If the same attack that causes a druid to revert from Wild Shape also reduces their maximum HP, what happens? Nothing will happen on this front until the basic polymorph code is fixed to address some of the mechanisms by which it is unbalancing and/or subject to abuse. You transform the creature into a different creature, the creature into an object, or the object into a creature (the object must be neither worn nor carried by another creature). ); Just not at the hour a level suggested here. It can cripple enemies, turn the caster or an ally into a ferocious beast, or provide you with utility options which are difficult to replicate without relying on numerous other spells at once. Shapechange only turns you into another creature. ok, yep, so the definitions of Truesight and True Seeing are different. True Polymorph and Polymorph both say target assumes the hit points of its new form, and when it reverts to its normal form, the creature returns to the number of hit points it had before it transformed. rev2023.5.1.43405. A creature must be designatedwith a tag or other textas a shapechanger to count as one. In other words, True Polymorph is still an active spell on the target, and would be suppressed but not removed by an antimagic field. I would personally try to fall between the two but closer to the lax end (because this is a 9th level spell and the game left the rails behind long ago at that point). That one gets a solid probably from me but is still strange to think about. The 3.5 Shapechange Handbook - giantitp.com Shapechange Vs. Polymorph - Forgotten Kingdoms Forums The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? The whole spell is so vaguely worded that basically any casting of it starts with an argument with your DM, so Im going to try and provide some clarity here. The targets game statistics, including mental ability scores, are replaced by the statistics of the new form. The creature can be restored to life only by means of a true resurrection or a wish spell. How do I stop the Flickering on Mode 13h? @DavidCoffron Cool, that clears that up! This lets you almost fully turn into something while still being an enormously powerful spellcaster from time to time if needed. A lich is an undead, not a humanoid or beast. Could a subterranean river or aquifer generate enough continuous momentum to power a waterwheel for the purpose of producing electricity? at 0 hit points for the purposes of an effect like disintegrate until You decide what action it takes and how it moves. Does a creature die outright if they drop below negative max hit points of their polymorphed form? Next paragraph: The targets gear melds into the new form. I am making the case for Disintegrate, as a 6th level spell and it's stated effect of also destroying all of the equipment that isn't magical, being given precedence. This land shall come to the God who knows the answer to War. The Polymorph spell is an extremely versatile and powerful tool. If the intent was to include all things legendary I believe it would have been writen that way. Now, in terms of power, neither True Polymorph nor 5e's version of Shapechange hold a candle to Wish. That's over a day of straight shapechange. Portions of the materials used are property of Wizards of the Coast. A disintegrated creature and everything it is wearing and carrying, except magic items, are reduced to a pile of fine gray dust. Shapechange trait from something like a dopplganger says; The doppelganger can use its action to polymorph into a Small or Medium humanoid it has seen, or back into its true form. @JeremyECrawford Do Wild Shaped druids or polymorphed creatures count as "shapechangers" for Moonbeam, or only things w/ (shapechanger) tag? Wizards of the Coast LLC. * (a drop of mercury, a dollop of gum arabic, and a wisp of smoke). You can't use any legendary actions or lair actions of the new form. Deciding what actions the new creature takes and how it moves isnt called out as requiring any kind of action on your part, or even interaction with the creature. Because it turns out that hitting 0 hp as your new form will always end the spell on you, even if its been 1000 years of living as a dragon. What happens to the target of a "permanent" True Polymorph spell when its caster dies? All of the issue for those three spells leave the Wild Shape Druid class skill/ability open to "what level is that cast at?" By what metric are we going to judge that? Make it a part of your character post campaign that they're going to experiment and make a spell that permanently changes their form to a dragon or something. Jeremy Crawford on Twitter: "The shapechange spell says you retain your Do Wild Shaped druids or polymorphed creatures count as "shapechangers Per the tweet linked, it appears that both Polymorphed cretaures and Wildshaped Druids would revert, rather than turn to dust, as RAI. Which do you guys think is better they're so similar and I can't find a good straight answer. D'oh! Equipment that merges has no effect in that state. The spellcaster level is also used for any cantrips included in the feature. Can you get infinite spells through True Polymorph and Change Shape? As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce the creatures normal form to 0 hit points, it isnt knocked unconscious. Not approved/endorsed by Wizards. CR 0 has better scout and disable forms, and nothing here is useful as a combat form. Being able to use a bonus action to transfer the effect to a new target makes it a great bonus damage dealer. Thus, overpowered. You also retain all of your skill and saving throw proficiencies, in addition to gaining those of the creature. Being hungry, and animal stuff, I dont know. or b) The body polymorphs back into its original form, then it disintegrates. Its bad when the DM has to twist and convolute the plot and world to prevent a player from breaking the game. The creature is friendly to you and your companions. I'll correct my answer. The other answers seem to assume that as a rule and are forgetting that death in animal form is stated to also revert you, not just dropping to 0 HP. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. Alright, so this means that, if you have any equipment you really care about, youre going to want to keep yourself to medium size and probably humanoid-ish. 2023 Wizards. Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. That's what incalculable power is for. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. MIP Model with relaxed integer constraints takes longer to solve than normal model, why? 5e doesn't have any hidden rules, and there doesn't seem to be anything about it working that way in the Spellcasting chapter of the PHB - and if it did work that way, wouldn't it break Polymorph spells in general, since they lose their Spellcasting class feature while Polymorphed? the druid, not the beast form, drops to 0 hp. If I turn you into a gold statue of yourself and then use Fabricate to explode you into a literal pile of money (remember Fabricate starts you convert raw materials into products of the same material), then give each of these cursed gold pieces to a different member of my pirate crew that I scatter throughout the world, what happens if one gold piece gets dispelled? What if, again, its a golem that you ordered to protect something and it sat for an hour doing absolutely nothing? 2023 Wizards. Does the Way of the Long Death monk's Mastery of Death feature protect against the Disintegrate spell? Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. You recover your uses in the span of an in-game day. Worst case scenario you just suicide and poof, back to where you started anyways. You can however keep using True Polymorph to turn into various creatures with spell slots, and exhaust them all. The highest CR beasts currently published. You assume the hit points and Hit Dice of the new form. Waiting for OP to clarify, but they could concentrate for the full hour ot make TP permanent, and then your concern is no longer an issue. It reverts to its true form if it dies. At least of the Chromatic and Metallic standards. Quick list of some excellent forms for this: So lets talk about some other good forms: As for the last line there, basically its saying dont turn into a goldfish first, then turn into a Pit Fiend and expect to have 300 hp because instead youre still going to have 1 (although see the Death Slaad above). Can True Polymorph create creatures with the Spellcasting feature? Can you only turn into the age category of Brass Dragon that you, personally, have seen? I seem to recall that matters. Next paragraph: The creature is limited in the actions it can perform by the nature of its new form, and it cant speak, cast spells, or take any other action that requires hands or speech, unless its new form is capable of such actions.. I have the idea that the "or dies" was for all other cases than PC, and the 0 HP was 'for all cases PC and those rare special NPC's that get to use the 0 HP rule." If the spell becomes permanent, you no longer control the creature. The creatures statistics become those of the object, and the creature has no memory of time spent in this form, after the spell ends and it returns to its normal form. Equipment that merges has no effect in that state. The spell lasts for the duration, or until the target drops to 0 hit points or dies. Adding EV Charger (100A) in secondary panel (100A) fed off main (200A). Parabolic, suborbital and ballistic trajectories all follow elliptic paths. 1.0, How to break the game with Animal Messenger (starting at level 3), AMFES: Summer 2, Now with Digital Tokens Included, 2020 Holiday Ornament and Black Friday Sale, If this is your first visit, be sure to Can an object created by True Polymorph be used as a consumable spell component? Granted, if the carry over HP from disintegrate reaches your max HP total, the dead the PC will be. #DnD If you concentrate on this spell for the full duration, the spell lasts until it is dispelled. Like would a player with 17 levels of Druid and 3 levels Barbarian be able to become a CR of 17 or 20? But ignoring that, if this is being treated as a replacement for wild shape, it does seem a -tad- underpowered. "Legendary Resistance (3/Day). D&D 5E Problems with Polymorph, True Polymorph, and Shapechange - EN World Why favor Disintegrate? Thank you for your comment and welcome to RPG StackExchange. Random Powell. When true polymorphed creature dies, does it revert to its original form? Does your DM need to know or decide by fiat the mean age category of all Brass Dragons out there? While True Polymorph allows any creature, Polymorph only allows beasts, so this section will analyze available beast forms. Essentially, a druid like this would be able to stay shapechanged -indefinitely-. Shapechange Vs True Polymorph - Tips & Tactics - D&D Beyond Monsters and Death Change Shape: The dragon magically polymorphs into a humanoid or beast. by Gwain Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:22 pm, Post Which means that the PC is now double Polymorphed, but since True Sight says . Depending on how you have treated it. What a fun clause to start yet another argument with this spell. When you transform, you choose whether your equipment falls to the ground, merges into the new form, or is worn by it. If you turn a creature into another kind of creature, the new form can be any kind you choose whose challenge rating is equal to or less than the targets (or its level, if the target doesnt have a challenge rating). Polymorph (both regular and true), Shapechange, and Wildshape all have a consistent rule of reverting to original form when 0 HP are reached, and can be summarized as follows: If you revert as a result of dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your normal form. This site works best with JavaScript enabled. Keep in mind that nothing prevents the wizard from making his clone in case he dies while in his TP form. As long as the excess damage doesnt reduce your normal It might remain friendly to you, depending on how you have treated it. If we take both spells together, this seems to imply that Shapechange would allow you to turn into constructs were it not for the inclusion of the part where you cant, meaning that True Polymorph probably means that, in fact, you can. Of course, many groups will simply allow whoever got turned into a T-Rex to do as they please. You lose concentration on a spell if you cast another spell that requires concentration. As long as the excess damage doesn't reduce your normal form to 0 hit points, you aren't knocked unconscious. Your equipment doesn't change shape or size to match the new form, and any equipment that the new form can't wear must either fall to the ground or merge into your new form. I hardly consider turning into a monster permanently as cheese. What differentiates living as mere roommates from living in a marriage-like relationship? The druid turns to dust, since the spell disintegrates you the instant you Portions of the materials used are property of Wizards of the Coast. dropping to 0 hit points, any excess damage carries over to your Druid Wild Shape also comes into the game much earlier than those spells. When you revert to your normal form, you return to the number of hit We will not include 3rd-party content, including content from DMs Guild, in handbooks for official content because we cant assume that your game will allow 3rd-party content or homebrew. Each of these things is a specific difference and considering the WotC lawyer speak writing of spells and actions and the various errata that they change over time (learned over years of writing the rules on Magic cards), I do not believe there is an intent to be vague. Your druid will have been shaping for 12 levels when the wizard finally gets Shapechange.

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